Controlled Parking Zones

Parking, Cycling, Public Transport, Walking, etc

Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:49 pm

Tony Harris has done a note about the CPZ meeting, which is bwlow. Kate and Douglas were there as well as others from the CC. If you have any different impressions from the meeting you could maybe let us know. From now on the Roads and Transport Group will keep an eye on developments and report to the CC as necessary from time to time.


John Palmer

Note on Proposed CPZ Extension following Public Meeting on 22 January 2008

The meeting was held in the Reid Memorial Hall, West Savile Terrace from 7pm to 8.30pm and was very well attended. Detailed maps were on display showing proposals for each street within the area of the proposed CPZ extension, that is the area bounded on the north by the southern boundaries of the existing S1 and 7 Zones, to the east by Dalkeith Road, to the west by the present CPZ boundary near Astley Ainslie Hospital and to the south by the South Suburban Railway.

Although it was originally thought that this area would be designated as an extension of the S1 Zone, it was stated at the meeting that CEC Transport Dept. now favours making this a separate zone, but will take account of views expressed.

Within the detailed proposals set out on the plans displayed there was an emphasis on the provision of “Permit Holders Only” and “Shared Use” parking spaces rather than just metered spaces. Where no zones are designated, double yellow lines will, as normal, be provided at junctions etc so that parking restrictions will apply there at all times, but elsewhere, where there are no designated zones, single yellow lines will be provided allowing parking outside the controlled parking operating hours.

It is understood that the next stage is for the Transport Dept to take into account the views expressed at the meeting and responses to the Questionnaire and put a draft scheme to the Council, which if approved would be open for further public consultation. This process is likely to take several months, at least.

The following is a description of the proposals displayed as they may affect the group of streets comprising Mentone Terrace, Mentone Gardens, Brights Crescent and Glenorchy Terrace for those unable to attend the meeting. Yellow lines will apply, as set out above, where no zone is described.

Mentone Terrace – Permit holders only on both sides, but with Shared Use zones on the NW and SE ends of the Terrace.

Mentone Gardens – Shared Use on south side only.

Glenorchy Terrace – Permit Holders only on southern half of east side, Shared Use on northern half of east side.

Moston Terrace – Permit Holders only on west side.

Brights Crescent – Shared Use in blocks along the north side, with gaps between and along the southern side Permit Holders only in blocks staggered opposite the north side gaps.
John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:59 pm

What does 'Shared Use' mean?

I note 'Permit Holders Only' only applies from 8.30 am to 5.30 pm, so if you take your car to work you won't need one, but you still might not get a parking place when you come home.

On the other hand, if you don't take your car to work, but use some alternative, greener method of transport, you have to buy a permit to leave your car parked outside your house. Seems a bit of a perverse incentive?

'Permit holders only' really only benefit people who use their cars to and from their houses during the day. Does anybody in Bright's Crescent, Glenorchy or Mostyn Terrace really have a problem with this? I can see people in Mentone might do.

With the new Sheriffhall Park & Ride now operating and one at Straiton to come later this year, do we really need to extend the Permit Holders only zones?


John Palmer
John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby Glen on Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm

I don't know about the proposed extension having not seen the proposals, having just returned to Scotland after living for some time in Spain. However I have written to Edinburgh Council about the current situation with Zone 7 in Grange Loan, which I attach for information:

Dear Mr Morrison

I am writing in response to your email of 15 May regarding parking in Grange Loan which has been passed to me for a reply. I hope you will accept my apologies for the delay in responding to your enquiry.

In terms of the problems you have experienced during the hours of control, proposals are being brought forward in order to alleviate these. Among these are proposals to introduce shared use parking into the central and peripheral zones following the success of this scheme in the extended zones. These spaces, which can be sued both by permit holders and those using the pay and display facility, bring considerable added flexibility but more importantly they maximise the amount of space available to residents thus alleviating parking pressures. It is intended that approximately 75% of current pay and display spaces and 25% of permit holder spaces be given over to this use.

As part of this change we also intend to carry out a general review of parking in the area in order to identify opportunities for additional parking provision. Changes to the rules governing loading and unloading will allow this activity to take place in parking spaces for a limited time. This will mean that, where lines have been painted to serve this purpose and do not serve any additional purpose in terms of road safety or traffic flow, these can be removed and parking introduced. Ultimately however, it is the responsibility of the Council, in its capacity as roads authority, to determine where parking can be marked.

We are also considering additional option with respect to the location of the existing zone boundaries, paying particular attention to the situation in the area around the boundaries of Zone 7 with Zone S1. It is our intention to be in a position to bring forward a firm proposal to improve the situation for Zone 7 permit holders within the next few months.

A further change which is being proposed in order to lessen oversubscription of parking is to limit the number of permits to 2 per household as is already the case in the extended zones.

Changes such as these are required to pass through an extensive statutory process before being implemented including a formal consultation giving anybody the opportunity to object. As such it will not be possible to make these changes before next summer at the earliest. I am however confident that they will ease some of the problems in your street.

As regards to the business permit proposals, their future is currently under discussion. It is intended to report with recommendations to an upcoming committee as to whether or not to proceed with the changes.

In terms of your problems parking outside the hours of control, I regret that there are no plans to extend the hours of operation. There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly, funding evening and weekend enforcement would require a raise in permit charges which would be unlikely to be supported by residents. Secondly, the controlled parking zone was primarily designed to address problems with non-resident parking. At evenings and weekends, much of the demand is due to the fact that residents are at home. As such, problems at these times could only be tackled if some residents were to choose to forego private car ownership.

I would also point out that enforcing parking controls through parking attendants rather than the police allows for much more effective enforcement. The police have many more pressing concerns and consequently parking offences could often be neglected under the previous arrangements. Since parking attendants concentrate on these offences, the police are freed up to concentrate their efforts elsewhere and parking restrictions receive dedicated attention.

I hope that this information is of assistance to you and you will feel reassured by the proposals described above. If you have any further questions, please get in touch.

Andrew MacKay
Professional Officer
Traffic Control
Transport Services
City Development Department
City of Edinburgh Council
249 High Street

From: Glen
Sent: 23 May 2008 19:15
To: Just Ask
Subject: RE: Just Ask - Automated Reply

Dear Customer Services,
"We are dealing with your enquiry and we will get back to you as soon as possible".
Your reply was dated 15 May. It is now 23 May 2008.
How much longer should I expect to wait before "as soon as possible" expires?
Glen Morrison

-----Original Message-----
From: Just Ask []
Sent: 15 May 2008 10:43
To: Glen
Subject: Just Ask - Automated Reply

Thank you for your email. We are dealing with your enquiry and we will get back to you as soon as possible.

Customer Services.

This is an automatically generated email. Please do not reply to this email.

This email and files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended for the sole use of the individual or organisation to whom they are addressed.

If you have received this eMail in error please notify the sender immediately and delete it without using, copying, storing, forwarding or disclosing its contents to any other person.

The Council has endeavoured to scan this eMail message and attachments for computer viruses and will not be liable for any losses incurred by the recipient.


From: Glen
Sent: 15 May 2008 10:42
To: ''
Subject: Residents Parking

Dear Sirs,

I have recently moved into my property at Grange Loan and have purchased a Resident's Permit for Zone 7. Having used the system now for a couple of months, I would like to make the following observations:

1. Your website states: "Reasonable parking facilities have been provided in each zone to meet the needs of residents during the controlled hours."
a) Our property is at the edge of Zone 7 with just a small area of Grange Loan in Zone 7. The remainder of Grange Loan is in Zone S1. The only other Resident's spaces in Zone 7 close to our property are in Findhorn Place.
b) I frequently have to park 200m away from my front door along Findhorn Place, where the first Resident's Parking spaces are 100m from the junction with Grange Loan. The initial spaces are reserved for Pay and Display parking, which are generally empty.
c) There are a number of cars competing for the very few spaces along our stretch of Grange Loan, which is an area of tenement flats and where the number of vehicles associated with these flats far exceeds the number of spaces. To get a space in Grange Loan Zone 7 requires good fortune in arriving at precisely the same time as somebody else is vacating a space.
d) The Resident's Parking areas are on only one side of the street. The other side has a single yellow line, presumably for the businesses which are located along this side to allow loading activities etc. However, during the day, this side is predominantly empty and greater use of this space could be used for residents.
e) On the side of the street where the Resident's spaces are located, valuable space is taken up by refuse bins. These could be relocated across the road, freeing up additional space for Resident's parking.
f) The new proposals for Business vehicles being able to park in Resident's spaces is going to further exacerbate this situation.

2. "Controlled hours"
a) I am retired and so I really need to park in a Resident's space, otherwise I risk getting a parking ticket every weekday morning.
b) After the "controlled hours" period has expired, it appears that Resident's spaces can be and are occupied by vehicles without Permits. Surely the payment of a Resident's Permit should allow these spaces to be exclusively for the use of those who have paid for the use of the spaces. I have recently returned from a stay in Spain, where in similar circumstances, parking and access is restricted totally for the use of the residents who have paid for such. All vehicles parking in these zones at any time without displaying a proper permit there can be towed away 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, by the police and taken to a storage compound, where a fine has to be paid to release the car. In Edinburgh, I have to rely on Traffic Wardens and can only report an illegally parked vehicle during Edinburgh Council's office hours.

I do feel short-changed in these circumstances. Walking along neighbouring streets, such as Darymple Crescent, which is off Findhorn Place, but in Zone S1, I can see that Resident spaces are more available as in these streets the properties enjoy off-street parking in drives and garages. This is not possible in Grange Loan Zone 7 where the properties are all flats.

I understand that the Council is undertaking a review to further extend the Controlled Zone parking around my area. This could be an opportunity to address some of the issues I have outlined above.

Please advise if any more immediate improvements can be made to alleviate the poor parking situation that currently exists in my street.


Glen Morrison
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:51 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:53 pm


There are two issues related to this which I feel very strongly about.....

1) This is supported by many local residents... At present there is easy parking close to the two shops at Blackford Station (Avenue Stores and Blackford Post Office) - people stop, pop in for a few items.... these will never be a "local shopping centre" but are a very valuable local facility and very dependent on easy car parking... I have (and so have many others, including the shop owners) asked for short-stay (15-30mins) FREE parking to allow the quick turnover to continue. The "official" answer is that areas such as Morningside Road, Marchmont etc. have benefited from pay-and-display - I contend that the very local single shops are in a different category (I'm sure there are others in the GPCC area) and hope you'd agree.

2) This is not necessarily supported by everyone here but, would, I think, be supported by those now in a CPZ. I would press very strongly that most (I would possibly say all) parking in the extension should be shared use. Advantages... permit holders don't have to find a "residents bay", visitors don't have to avoid empty permit bays, AND (most important) the signage is reduced (no markings on the street etc.). Might be worth talking to Andy Bell (Grange Ass) - still in discussions with Council officials about reducing number of unsightly poles/signs etc. in S1.

Sue (Tritton)
John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:58 pm

Hi Sue

I agree with both points and happy to chat about this.

John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:00 pm

Hi John

Local shops - like Blackford Avenue - which would be badly affected by parking charges... certainly those on Mayfield Road and Dalkeith Road which now have free and very easy drop-in parking. I think we should press very hard for 15-30mins free parking near these and I would hope that it wouldn't be abused. We could even ask the shop owners to keep a check - after all, it's in their interest to ensure a turnover of cars!

Sue (Tritton)
John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby SARAchairman on Sun Oct 19, 2008 2:28 pm

I will be unable to attend either of the forthcoming public meetings about the proposed CPZ extension.
I would be grateful if the following points could be considered in the discussions of parking on local streets:

1. Obliging local residents and daily commuters to pay for parking which was hitherto free of charge increases the local cost of living and makes Edinburgh a less economically viable environment for business. Creating a few new jobs for traffic wardens is inadequate economic recompense for what amounts to a 'parking tax' on local people. Extending parking controls will encourage the loss of more front gardens under concrete.

2. The existence of motor vehicles is a fact of life; unfortunately, cars need to be parked somewhere. Residents of south Grange have had their streets blighted by the Traffic Section, not by the motor car. Vehicles are parked in the streets of south Grange to avoid the excessively restrictive parking regulations in the empty streets of north Grange CPZ.

3. The serious parking problems within the existing controlled parking zones should be resolved before extending any controls to new areas. Legal difficulties hindering the necessary adjustments to parking regulations within north Grange will not be resolved by painting road markings in south Grange. Instead, the relevant legislation should be changed. Alternatively, selected parts of the current parking zones could be suspended.

4. The proposed south Grange CPZ would produce similar over-spill problems to those caused by the north Grange CPZ. Suggestions that the new over-spill can be resolved later by a different kind of CPZ south of the railway are not credible. Having designed an inadequate controlled parking zone in north Grange, the Transport Section should not be permitted to get it wrong again in south Grange, with the hope of correcting all their mistakes in yet another CPZ south of the railway. Their track-record is not good. Why should we have faith in these people?

We appear to be facing an unelected Transport Section which has already decided that "a CPZ is the answer", regardless of the question.

Douglas Dalgleish
Savile Area Residents Association
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:01 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:14 pm

Hi Douglas

Thanks for your post. I note that you will not be able to make either of the consultation meetings, so I will ensure the views of SARA are passed on to the Council's Transport section.

I'm afraid I personally do not agree with you. Allowing commuters to continue to park for free encourages them to continue to clog our streets and encourages an environmentally unsustainable means of travelling to and from work. To me the issue is not whether motor cars are a fact of life, it is what they are used for which is important. We should be weaning people from an over-reliance on their cars and asking them to consider a greater variety of ways of getting about; by walking, cycling and using public transport as well as using the car. With 'park and rides' now available at Newcraighall, Sherriffhall and Straiton Park, using a car to come this far into town for work is no longer really necessary.

With regard to your paras 3 and 4 it would be helpful if you

(a) outlined what existing parking problems you see in north Grange and foresee for south Grange.
(b) perhaps made some suggestions for resolving these problems, as well as the ones you foresee for the over-spill area south of the railway.


John Palmer
John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby John Palmer on Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:17 pm

E-mail received from resident of Priestfield Road.

"Thanks for the recent newsletter. Here is a local problem!

The article on Roads and Transport is not quite accurate!

Take a walk or even a drive down Priestfield Road anytime between 8am and 6pm, Monday to Friday and you will see that we ARE a park and ride facility already and have been so for many years - no 'may become' about it!

The situation is exacerbated at present, by the ongoing gas mains works at the junction with Dalkeith Road when drivers, instead of following the official diversion route, speed down what is now a one-track road on their illegal way through the bus lane to Peffermill Road. The police unfortunately do not have the resources to do anything about it as we have already been in touch with our community policeman, Thomas Hopper.
Speed bumps down the road or a camera at the bus lane might improve matters but they are not planned for."

Posted by John Palmer
John Palmer
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Controlled Parking Zones

Postby SARAchairman on Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:01 pm

Hello John. I'm impressed by the speed of your reply.

If you or someone else at the public meetings could arrange to air the the points I have raised, a representative range of voices may be heard. I contacted Transport some time ago, but their reply seemed to me to be motivated by a degree of intransigence.

I understand that you do not believe that cars should be used for travel to work. I have some sympathy for that view. However many people living and working within Edinburgh do use their cars for routine travel. It is unrealistic to expect most car drivers to pay to leave their vehicles parked on their home street, and then to stand around waiting for a bus to work. Some will. Most won't. Personally, I prefer to leave my car parked free of charge on my street and cycle across town. At least I get something back for my tax disc that way. However I'm not entirely pro-car. If you were to propose a total ban on private cars in Edinburgh, I would probably support you.

The parking problems I see in north Grange are obvious: those streets have not seen such daytime emptiness since the 1960's. A resource being wasted. There are hundreds of parking spaces (representative samples have been counted) lying unused every day, some on bus routes. The relevant part of Lauder Road must be almost as wide as George Street. The unaccommodating parking restrictions in north Grange have transferred the parked cars into south Grange. New parking restrictions in south Grange would relocate the problem to south of the railway (where already, there are paid-parking avoiders from Kings Buildings).

The places to work on a solution are within the existing CPZs, rather than a rollout of the unsolved problems into new areas. Changing the parking regulations to tolerate day parking in the underused north Grange should occur long before pushing up the cost-of-living and congestion elsewhere. Adjusting the cost of permits would not be impossible. This is not as difficult as, say, aeronautical engineering.

Ironically, Transport and Planning are part of the same council department. While Planning remains focused on segregating land use to prevent residential, commercial and light industrial activities happening in one location, thereby encouraging travel to work, Transport are struggling to find acceptable solutions to the problems their colleagues have caused. Meanwhile the hapless public are expected to continue funding all their salaries and pensions.


Douglas Dalgleish
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:01 pm


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